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Pony and Tony's Place (Off-Topic Chat Here)

SPREAD BETTING

Pony and Tonys Place

SPREAD BETTING

Post Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:44 pm

Lots of Rummers have asked questions recently about Spread Betting and which firm to use etc etc.. I have just returned to my beloved IG index account and will be spread betting
on a daily basis. I thought i would take the opportunity to start a new thread on the subject.
FYI i have just closed my long spread on Range (took profit) so i can use my account on the Forex.
Be Lucky Tony
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:04 pm

Hi Tony,

Looking forward to this. Any chance of some of your own IG real world examples with screenshots and your thoughts and comtemplations on what you're taking out at any time and why? I'm talking complete novice/noobs guide type of thing for those interested?

Cheers,

Kok
kok
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:11 pm

NO PROBS KOK
I WAS GONNA GET A LIST OF SPREAD BETTING FIRMS WHERE YOU CAN OPEN UP
A DEMO ACCOUNT. (IG DOESNT DO DEMO).. THEN YOU CAN PLAY AROUND FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS LEARNING HOW IT WORKS. HOW THE MARKETS REACT TO NEWS.ETC ETC.. ITS A BIG LEARNING CURVE WHERE YOU CAN WIN BIG AND OBVIOUSLY LOSE BIG.SOME PEOPLE JUST SPREAD ON STOCKS SOME LIKE ME ON FX..THERES LOTS OF FREE INFO OUT THERE (BOOKS ETC)... IVE NOT PLAYED SINCE END OF JAN SO
FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS IM JUST GONNA BE DOING SOME QUICK SCALPING TRADES IN AND OUT ASAP JUST TIL I GET BACK INTO IT..
TAKE YOUR TIME WITH IT MATE THERE IS NO RUSH AND SEE WHAT SUITS YOUR STYLE.
TTT
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 9:55 am

Hi Tony

Just to reiterate what kok has said, this is something I am looking to learn. I do have a couple of longs on range which are all doing well, however I would really appreciate any advice regards daily scalping, where to find the scalpees etc.

Kind Regards
Gary
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:06 am

All
Here is a list in no particular order of spread betting firms with demo accounts..
www.cityindex.co.uk
www.alpari.co.uk
www.gftuk.com
www.capitalspreads.com
www.tradefair.com
www.fxcm.com
www.prospreads.com
www.financialspreads.com

I would recommend cityindex for a demo account.. I left cityindex for IG after CI **** up.
I wont go into detail but i find IG ok for what i do..
Open up a couple of demos play around for a while and check out how the platform works and the difference between spreads.(buy/sell difference).
Lots of rummers spread bet so hopefully more experiences and info will be forthcoming.
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:15 am

Now youve opened a demo account here is some good advice..
95% of you will blow your account...


The no risk factor is the most important. No matter how seriously you take your demo account it will never affect the amount of money in your pocket.
With a demo account your brain processes the information differently - it sees the big winners and ignores the losses and small winners. Your brain tells you - if I can get big winners on here then I can get it on a real account.
Of course this is far from reality. Your brain knows the difference even if you try to convince it that its the same.
The first time you place a trade - even for a mini lot, a whole different set of connections open in your brain. You have the anxiety at the beginning of a trade - fears as price does its little dance and fears that your gains will run away.
Well, I am not going to harp on about this - but you know the story.
Let me tell you what demo accounts are good for.
1) trying out a trading platform (which is not always good as live accounts often don't act the same).
2) system testing.
and that's it.
Paper trading eliminates emotion. To ease into real trading, keep your position sizes as small as is workably possible. As a simple example, if there's £20 at stake, it's easy to make the right decisions, and then sleep easily at night. If there's £2,000 at stake, it's extremely difficult. To put it another way, if you are becoming too emotionally involved in your trades, then your position sizes are too large.
As long as trading remains a "hobby" (as opposed to a primary income source), there's no pressure to trade at a level necessary to put food on the table, so you can focus on trading your plan, and percentages instead of dollars. A 2% win is still a 2% win, whether it's $20 or $2,000. Your position sizes should be commensurate to your account size, whose growth should ideally keep pace with your confidence and experience.
My recommendations for the newbie would be as follows:
3) Trade a demo account to grasp the basics of trading and then go live - preferably within 2 months of starting.
4) Open an account with a broker that allows you to spread bet small stakes like Capital Spreads for example - there you can trade from as low as 1 GBP - but don't go that low. You will not make a lot of money but enough to help you feel something of what its like to really trade.
5) You might also lose some money...try out different systems, read stuff but keep spread trading...
6) Lose some more money...
7) Suddenly realize that its possible to blow your account just with £1 a tick.
8) Now open a new demo account and start to work on your own system.
9) You must trade any system to the letter or the testing is worthless.
10) When your system has made 3000 pips you may transfer to live again but still at small stakes.
11) When the system trading live has made 3000 pips you may spread bet £10 stakes.
and so on until you reach your desired level.
That's my best advice after several years spread betting.
I've noticed this and would welcome your feedback. I once worked with someone who said they would never trade live till his system worked - well he traded demo for 2 years and built a fair system that made money.
He then went live and blew the account.
Why?
Because although he was by that time a pretty good demo trader he could not trade live for toffee. The connections in his head had not been made in the real world and as such he had not evolved the emotional control that any trader needs. In effect he was a total newbie again.
This story is true and its not the first time ive seen it. This particular bloke took a further 2 years of live trading until he was in the same position again. and then he gave up (like so many do). Think on before you use a demo for too long..

Im not trying to put people off im just telling you how it is guys..
Be Lucky Tony
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:20 am

As TTT has said get a demo account you will get giddy at some point and have it bite you on the arse..............personally I will not use stops and I prefer IG myself from the list. They tend to be a bit more lenient on margin calls giving you time to top up as a rule.

Kev
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kev yorks
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:33 am

Agree kev
IG just happens to be one of the few without a demo account but i know they do free courses which you can attend..
FWIW i sold the GBP/USD earlier took quick profit and closed bet. The GBP/USD dropped still further and i wouldve made more money, but here is the important thing i couldnt give a fuk.
I used to make quick profit then watch it disappear now i set my target for the day and when i hit that im out..Thats the way i play it and it suits my working day..Remember profit is profit..
TTT
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 10:48 am

Cheers for that info Tony, some sage advice and much appreciated. Will have a good look into it all this weekend.
kok
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:24 pm

Forex an introduction..
IG just sent me this through..Just an example of what is out there....

http://www.igindex.co.uk/spread-betting ... rkets.html
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:11 pm

TEST EMAIL
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:29 pm

TTT/Kev

Many thanks for the replies, nice to be involved in a forum again where you can get honest responses and not have to be wary of out catty remarks..

Regards
Gary
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:37 pm

Great thread tony
I have dabbled a bit in this
not been overly successful

I am not sure of the difference
If say i had 4k to play with
The benefits of sb over buying stocks

would i make a lot more with spread bets if the share price went up?

How much more exposure would it give me rather than buying the stock

thanks
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TrickyB
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:40 pm

Meant to add im with barclays and they ask 50% of notional value?
Im confused with this so its half?
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TrickyB
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:53 pm

yes with leverage you can make more but equally lose more.............the main reason I use spreads though is its tax efficient.

Kev
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kev yorks
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:56 pm

Thanks kev
Pay enough to the taxman already
so for my £4k with a 50% notional value
would i be right in thinking it would give me £8000 worth of exposure?
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TrickyB
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:11 pm

Yes plus whatever tax saving you make.

Kev
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kev yorks
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:18 pm

kev yorks wrote:
> Yes plus whatever tax saving you make.
>
> Kev


Thanks kev
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TrickyB
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:55 pm

http://www.cityindex.co.uk/learn-to-trade/
Some reasonable info for beginners here.

I'm also pretty new to SB, so watching this thread with interest.

Thanks for the info so far, guys.

I have lots of questions about trading div exdates etc.
Will try to put them together in a non-rambling way!
skidmarxist
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 7:58 pm

Great thread TTT, answered a few things i was thinking about, cheers guys...
cjv
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:02 pm

Hey Tony, i'll give the cityindex a go with their demo account....Thanks
cjv
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:15 pm

CJV
Good start see if you can blow your account.. LOL..
Demo Account.
Try this on the EUR/USD
Lesson 1.. Very simple 1 trade a day £10pp aim for 10 points total £100..
Try it after 8am when the London Markets open.
The object of this is to show you how quick you can win/LOSE money..
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:00 pm

Whichever company you pick, ensure that the client funds are completely segregated. With the collapse of MF Global and Worldspreads, who knows which one is next?

IG Index released this statement a few days ago:

IG Group Hldgs plc
Statement re Worldspreads Limited
RNS Number : 6059Z
IG Group Holdings plc
19 March 2012


IG GROUP HOLDINGS PLC
Statement re Worldspreads Limited

IG Group Holdings plc ("IG" or the "Group") notes that Worldspreads Limited ("Worldspreads") has appointed Joint Special Administrators following the identification of a material shortfall in client money.

The Group has no direct financial exposure to Worldspreads. Worldspreads had a UK market share of approximately 3%, compared to the Group's share of 41%, according to the most recently available market research.

IG Group fully segregates all individual client funds, even where regulation permits otherwise and does not utilise client money for its own purposes.


For further information please contact:

IG Group 020 7896 0011

Tim Howkins, Chief Executive

Chris Hill, Chief Financial Officer



FTI Consulting

Neil Doyle 020 7269 7237
Ed Berry 020 7269 7297

http://www.investegate.co.uk/Article.as ... 128466059Z
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emanon1
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Mar 22, 2012 11:02 pm

They also sent this email 2 days ago:

Your money is protected with IG


Hello

As the UK’s no.1 spread betting provider*, we’d like to remind you of the safeguards we implement to protect your money.

At IG Index we go above and beyond what’s required by the FSA, placing all individual clients’, not just retail clients’, money in segregated bank accounts. These funds can never be used by us, under any circumstances.


Strength and security

IG Index is part of IG Group Holdings plc, a FTSE 250 company. This affords you all the resources and security of a large multinational organisation:

* Cash reserves of over £300 million
* Market capitalisation of over £1.6 billion
* Strong, debt-free balance sheet

For more information, please see the About Us and Client Money Protection pages of our website.
Kind regards,

IG Index
[email protected]
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:15 pm

Hi guys

Bit of advice if possible regarding spreadbet account.

I sold some stocks on Friday (Not Range!), which amounts to 6K or so.

I am happy to let this money run in a spread bet til the end of the year, even roll it over if things are going well.

I am having trouble working out margins etc and would like advice regarding how much of this 6k I could place on a long position with Range whilst still covering myself down to say 7-8p in the event of a duster/super shake etc.

I am thinking 500 a point would be safe but would like to get the best bang for my buck so to speak, this is assuming I get in at 13p or so.

Really grateful for any help.

Kind Regards
Gary
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:50 pm

Hi Gary,

That's plenty & would allow the sp to drop to 4.25p (actually lower - see below) before a margin call.

13x500 = £6,500
deposit would be 25% of this = £1,625
Balance (from your £6k) = £4,375

4375/500 = 8.75 pence that the price could drop from 13p

13-8.75 = 4.25p

That's how I like to calculate the price it *could* drop to before wipeout......

(although at this point, your 25% deposit would only be £531.25 giving you over £1,000 extra before margin call, so margin call would probably actually be circa 2.25p. However, for ease of use & mental calculation I use the above method)

£750pp would allow a drop to 8.25p ish before wipeout (£6k funds @ 13p)....

Cheers,

Lee.
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emanon1
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:57 pm

Fireman Gary.
I was £400pp long on range with only 3k in my account.. 6k will be fine for £500pp.
TTT
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:32 pm

Eman that's a very clear responce and a brilliant template for anyone new to this to be able to play with and put there own figures into.

Great thread guys
Can I add that I also add guys that it is worth getting to grips with a basic understanding of charting which will help you trade a channel or at least know when to get in and out which is very important.
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zanardi1
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:06 pm

Guys

Thanks very much for that, looking forward to monday now!

Zanardi, may I ask a good source to start learning the basic charting you have suggested, I am really interested in that, although judging by recent events, Range would seem to have a life of its own!

Kindest Regards
Gary
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:17 pm

FS
Ive just been trying to upload Candlestick Charting For Dummies under a new thread i was gonna start "Charting Books etc" but for some reason it wont let me. I will see if i can post it on RUM. I have quite a lot of books on the subject and there was a link to a site that some Rummers have with shitloads of material..
TTT
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:24 pm

Thanks Mate

Will look out for it on RUM.

Gary
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:59 pm

No Luck Gary :-( gmail wouldnt let me upload a file greater than 4 meg..
I will think of another way tho..atb
TTT
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:25 am

Fireman got 3 of the greatest books for you which will take you through from beginner to where you need be a competent SB. Will post it all later as weather is great here on the isle of Wight and am running the London marathon so need to get out quick for a 16 miler as clocks gone back and forgot. Cheers
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zanardi1
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:33 am

Someone tell him the london marathon is in london and not on the Isle of Wight.. :-)
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sun Mar 25, 2012 2:31 pm

Hahaha:) Tony, just got in after 16miles run in the heat of the day on a bloody hilly road mamamia I am in pain. Recovering on the bed now, will post your books later fireman too weak to think ....should not really sign up for these things when you have never done any running before 10 weeks ago, but am a big softy Italian so doing it for the kiddies. Speak later
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zanardi1
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:36 pm

Thanks for all the help guys, look forward to the info.

Kindest Regards
Gary
FIREMAN SAM
 
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FRESNILLO PLC - FRES (long?)

Post Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:29 pm

Ok, thought I better put this on the SB thread (if only to resurrect it!)

The closer FRES gets to 1500, the closer I am tempted to go long.

14 day RSI lower limit near breach, with good support (1500) tested several times over last few months.

FTSE100 company, so guaranteed stops and good margin.

Any views?
skidmarxist
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:51 pm

Skid
I just had a quick look at the 1500 and i agree lots of support..
I Did notice last time it dropped to below 1500 Dec 14th it then took 5-6 days to turnaround..
So maybe wait for the drop then have another look before you strike..
Ifs and Buts at the moment mate... Keep me posted on this thread
Be Lucky Tony
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:32 am

NON FARM EMPLOYMENT FRIDAY 6TH APRIL 13.30PM GMT...(1st friday every month)
Just a reminder guys to anybody with open spreads around this time on the forex/indices..
This news generally moves the markets very quickly and can take out your account..
Due to the london markets being closed it may not have the same impact as a normal farmers.
Worth a look on the live charts from around 13.25PM 1min chart...
Be Lucky Tony
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:00 pm

Hello TTT,
FRES didn't get close enough for me to open position (I have become more disciplined, after chasing, and losing, on entry prices)
RIO entry at 3300 also possible over next week? (ok for 1 day, bit woolly on weekly?)

Link below is useful for market-moving events.
http://www.cityindex.co.uk/market-analy ... endar.aspx

Be lucky
Skid
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:32 pm

I hate cityindex lol..

I use http://www.forexpeacearmy.com/forex_news_calendar/ for a quick check and to see
how the markets reacted to recent news..
FRES.. Bounced off the 1470ish in recent weeks..
Might keep an eye on it in the next few weeks..

RIO. Not had a look but will do in next few days..
atb TTT
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:13 pm

FX Trader Magazine April/June.. Worth a look..


http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1w9l0/ ... da680934ec
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:20 am

TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:14 am

TONY THE TIGER wrote:
> Some light reading..
>
> http://www.dianomioffers.co.uk/uploads/ ... f_link.PDF
Thanks for that, sure I'll have time before we get some news...................................................

;-)
skidmarxist
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:16 pm

RIO
Interesting to see where this tops out.
There's a fib around 3600 (YTD), resistance been tested, with good support around 3300.

Be nice to have a little trading range establish itself.
Even nicer to have enough margin to act on the 3306 close yesterday!

:-|
skidmarxist
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:40 pm

Interesting thread gents, I have made it sticky here to make it easier to find.
admin
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:45 pm

Im going back to school guys anybody wanna join me.???
Its Free...
I just fancied starting all over again and will try to iron out all the silly mistakes i make which usually cost me money..
I was gonna start today but im sick (ive got a note off my mum), so i will start on monday..

http://www.babypips.com/school/
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:07 pm

Lots of FX guff.......

I'll give it a go, though.

(Did you get any RIO or FRES?)
skidmarxist
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:09 pm

Skid
Ive made more money out of FX than shares...
The charting is still the same just different time frames..
I just cleared out my IG account so no RIO or FRES.. RIO as always scared me it moves a lot
in a day/week..lol.
TONY THE TIGER
 
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Re: SPREAD BETTING

Post Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:12 pm

TTT, what FX do you usually trade?
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emanon1
 
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